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Videos of Debates in Guffey 6/29/10 
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Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 8:52 pm
Posts: 217
Post Videos of Debates in Guffey 6/29/10
Videos of the Republican debates for Commissioner, Coroner, and Sheriff are now available at http://www.[another website].com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1765

Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:16 pm

Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 12:48 am
Posts: 309
Post Re: Videos of Debates in Guffey 6/29/10
Thanks jf. We've been looking forward to it.

Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:36 pm

Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 12:48 am
Posts: 309
Post Re: Videos of Debates in Guffey 6/29/10
I only got through the commissioners' debate so far. I-)

One thing I noticed is that Mark talks like everybody should already know his job and he's bored with having to explain things to us that we should already know because he does. I would dare him to prove he knows my job, so why should I know his? Having said that, he does know his job better than Lillian knows the job even after she spent two years on the BOCC to Mark's one and a few months. Plus she says she has worked in every department for a hundred years, so why doesn't she know more than what it sounds like she does? Maybe they have about the same time in BOCC - don't know for sure. But the issue on cutting business taxes that Wissel is talking about seems to be something Mark already looked into and spoke to state reps about and found it won't work. And Lillian's idea will just shift the taxes from businesses to homeowners, so is that what we want? Reduce fees for building and licenses - that will help new businesses. The more business you bring in, the more tax goes down for everybody in the county because the tax is shared.

One problem with Mark's position about raising fees. When he argues that you are subsidizing somebody else building in the county, he doesn't tell you that you aren't going to save any money if they raise fees for the builder. They just take the extra money they don't need for the building department and blow it somewhere else. So you're still subsidizing anything going on in the county. The commissioners just think you'll buy that they're getting extra money from the "evil builders" who now have to subsidize you by paying more to build than you had to.

Class warfare again when all they want to do is raise, raise, raise. The government sees all newcomers and new businesses as sheep to fleece. Us old folks, too. I don't trust either of them, but Mark seems to know the job better. And he wants to spend less on the new building. That's a little something, if he lets us know that they really looked thoroughly at all of their options and shows us the comparisons, I'll at least consider giving him another look.

Only for the primary, though. And then we have to start comparisons all over again.


Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:12 pm

Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 12:48 am
Posts: 309
Post Re: Videos of Debates in Guffey 6/29/10
Pardon me - I forgot to say Thank You. [another website] did a great job filming and making the debate available to the public. INTERNET RULES!!! :-B

Excellent public service.

Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:14 pm

Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:55 am
Posts: 82
Post Re: Videos of Debates in Guffey 6/29/10
NewsJunky wrote:


I just finished listening to all three debates -- what a joke the questions were! The pablum for my granddaughter has more bite than what the Rep. Central Committee served! Nice, generic stuff that no one could disagree with. Criminy!

"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, do nothing." Dante

Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:09 am

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:19 am
Posts: 335
Location: Small Town America
Post Re: Videos of Debates in Guffey 6/29/10
Pablum is right. What dry stuff. It was hard to hear some of it like Mike and the guy reading the questions sometimes mumbled through them. It was funny they had them in envelopes like he didn't know what the questions would be. :roflol2:

And Fred's strategy is interesting. "If I agree with Mike on everything and hire a denver officer to do my training, nobody will see a need for Mike."

He's about 12 years late. If he thought this was the right thing to do, why didn't he cut spending and improve training 10 years ago so the county wouldn't be bankrupting now? Why did he double the size of the jail on the backs of everybody else when they didn't know what they were doing? Why did the commissioners back then go for this? Why did he wait until it came out in the public to where he had to do it? Does he only do what he's forced to do? He says nobody mentions that he brought $17 million IN to the county! What a joke! Does he think we're that stupid?? If he brings in $17 million and spends $21 million, how is that a benefit to us?? He LOST millions, he didn't make any money. What a fraud!!!

(Barack Hussein Obama thinks I cling)

Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:38 am

Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:48 am
Posts: 69
Post Re: Videos of Debates in Guffey 6/29/10
NJ saying something nice about Doobie laid me out flat. Speechless in Park County.

They were dry. It looked like they really didn't care because lack of controversy is good for the incumbent. The challengers fell for it. That's what happens when you get inexperienced candidates. They don't realize how much of an edge the guy in office already has.

We did learn that Silly Lilly thinks property taxes come from the ceiling. Or was that from heaven? I never knew that taxes were ordained by the Deity. But, there you go. I guess the politicians think that or want us to. They were asked how they could reduce the impact of taxes and they didn't give an answer - only that they are powerless to do so. I never saw anybody in Park County suggest that the mill levy should be lowered. That might help. But they don't want to cut their spending if they can convince us to do it instead.

Let's see the rest of the credit cards!!!

Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:24 pm

Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 10:20 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Here
Post Re: Videos of Debates in Guffey 6/29/10
NewsJunky caused a flap there, for sure. But I thought parts of the debate were interesting.

One thing I noticed is that Lillian didn't seem to have a real firm grasp on her business relief tax plan. The presentation was vague and the discussion between her and Mark went from property tax to business personal property tax to sales tax with no clarity. Lillian didn't argue with anything Mark said, so she must agree with his criticism. Maybe we'll hear more from the subject as we go along. Right now, it looks like Lilly didn't write her own plan so she can't really explain it.

On her website, "she" says that the suggested plan is revenue neutral which means that the same total amount of tax will be collected. It will be shifted away from some and onto others. (For those confused by the term, business personal property tax is a tax on furniture, equipment and sometimes inventory used in the production of business income. It's a tax on business property that is not real estate. They could come up with a less-confusing term than business-personal.)

She brings up TABOR as though that law would stop anybody from cutting taxes. The problem seems to be that most districts would then raise the taxes on other people to make up for what they would credit to businesses. It's not a tax cut. It's a redistribution.

The other big problem is tax planning. Tax planning is very important in business plans. Lilly's plan calls for the tax credits to change every year based on the whim of the taxing district levying the tax. If a business doesn't know every year whether it will get that tax credit or not, they can't write their business plan to take advantage of the credit.

Another question is, how much, in real dollars, would this really mean to an average business? It doesn't look like it would have much of an impact, compared to the burden the county places on business.

I agree - cut direct fees and license costs to businesses including building permits for contractors, which doesn't help the rest of us. It might come as a surprise to some, but building is a business and they are constantly put under pressure to support their own forced government services while no one else has to do the same. Typical liberal anti-business method of conning the taxpayer.

Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:39 am

Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:43 am
Posts: 121
Post Re: Videos of Debates in Guffey 6/29/10
Mark was a bit unenthusiastic, but it did seem like he understood the tax issues better than his opponent.

I went to read the website and Wissel has lots of conservative buzzwords and phrases stuck in her material, but it's done like she really doesn't know what they really mean. She's not suggesting reducing the size of government, for instance. She uses the phrase after explaining that not much would likely change and the tax idea is "revenue neutral". It's a page full of non sequitor and contradiction.

More fake conservatives. :sadly: What's spray-painted red on the outside and deep blue through and through? Park County government and the central committee it owns.

Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:02 am
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